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Thursday, July 27, 2017

Lunches with Lucas – Session III


         As I stepped into the restaurant, I saw that Lucas was already at our accustomed table.  That was pretty unusual, as usually I was the one who arrived first.  As I approached the table, I could see that he appeared to be talking to himself.

          “Hey Lucas,” I said, “who are you talking to?”

          “Oh – hi – I was just talking to God here,” he said, motioning to the empty chair.

          I thought about leaving, just to teach him a lesson.  “It’s an empty chair…”

          “Why can’t God be invisible?” Lucas asked.

          “That’s so childish.  God could be a chair, too, but that doesn’t mean anything.”

          “You’re right, that is kind of childish on my part.  But last time you talked about God appearing to you in this chair and said that would be enough to believe.  Isn’t that a little childish also – or at least a little selfish?”  Lucas asked.

          “What do you mean ‘selfish’?” I asked, taking my seat.

          “Well, it’s seems like you’ve only answered the question as if you were the only person that God needed to worry about,” Lucas said, drawing out the word ‘only’.  “If God’s going to do a miracle so that you will believe, doesn’t he have to do the same miracle for everyone else as well?  Otherwise, it’s just not fair and I know that you’re very worried about God being fair.”

          “Sure – what’s the problem with that?  God can appear in chairs to everyone, and then everyone would believe in him and I guess that would make him happy and you happy,” I retorted.

          “But that’s way too glib.  You aren’t really seriously thinking that through.  That whole concept just doesn’t work.  You think it is childish that I would say that God is in that chair but he’s just invisible, and you’re right – it’s childish.  But so is saying that if God appeared in chairs to everyone, it would make everyone believe in him,” Lucas said.
         
          “Childish?  You’re the one who believes in some God that you’ve never seen!” I exclaimed.

          “All I’m asking is that you give your ‘appear in a chair’ a little more serious consideration.  God is not just concerned about you.  If there is a God anything like the one I believe in, then he is concerned about everyone – and that includes everyone who has ever lived and everyone who ever will live.  So if he’s going to get people to believe in him by appearing in chairs, he has to do it for everyone over the whole history of mankind,” Lucas said.

          “OK.  I don’t see a problem with that.”

          “You don’t see a problem with creating some event that has always happened and always will happen?  Such an event would not be considered a miracle – it would just be a ‘natural’ event – like the sun rising every morning,” Lucas stated.

          “It’s not natural for anything to just appear in a chair,” I countered.

          “No, but it would be if it had always happened and always did happen.  That is almost the very definition of a natural event.  What else could you call it?  I mean if your requested ‘miracle’ had been ‘I want a being to appear behind me on the ground whenever I walk around’ and it was something that had always happened, then you would just call it a ‘shadow’, not a miracle,” Lucas said.

          “But that makes my point.  A shadow is a perfectly natural event.  There is a clear scientific, natural explanation for why a shadow appears.  It’s not magic.  It’s not a miracle.  It’s nature.  Are you trying to prove the existence of God using shadows??” I asked, a bit incredulous.

          “Of course not,” Lucas said.  “I’m just trying to point out that no event, no matter how shocking, is going to be sufficient for you to believe in God if it is something that happens all the time.  You will always have a ‘natural’ explanation for it.”

          “Of course I will.  That is because there is only nature.  But if your God does a miracle, then there won’t be an explanation for it,” I countered.

          “What?  Did you just imply that if there is something that happens that cannot be explained by science, you would consider it a miracle?”

          I realized I was on shaky ground.  But Lucas continued without waiting for my response.  “Then how about human consciousness?  It’s not explainable by science and it is something that has always happened and probably always will happen.  It is something that every human being experiences.  Seems like a perfect miracle to show God’s existence.”

          “You love to bring up human consciousness, but that is hardly evidence for the existence of God.  We are close to understanding it – we will eventually figure it out,” I said.

          “Ah, it’s an AYUNE,” Lucas said with a smile.

          “There you go making up words again.”

          “As-yet-unexplained-natural-event,” Lucas said.

          “I know – you told me before.  But consciousness will be explained,” I said.

          “Well, I might debate that – I don’t think neuroscience is even close to explaining human consciousness.  But that’s not my point.  My point is that even if some event were to be unexplainable, you would never consider it to be a miracle,” Lucas said.

          “You’re right.  And I think I’m being pretty logical if I consider natural events to be natural events and don’t ascribe any supernatural meaning to them,” I said with an air of finality.

          “Right.  So the point is that, if God wants to prove himself to you, he cannot use any natural, repeated events, even if they are completely unexplained by modern science.  Any kind of event that he might do to demonstrate his existence, if he does it fairly for every person who has ever lived or ever will live, will be relegated to being described as a natural event.  So, as far as your views are concerned, natural events are ‘out’ for God.  You will not allow God to use them to prove his existence,” Lucas said.

          “I wouldn’t use the term ‘relegated’, but, yes, I think you are summarizing my views pretty well.  Natural events are natural, not supernatural…and you can’t try to turn them into supernatural events by saying they are unexplainable.  You Christians claim that all sorts of natural events are signs of the supernatural, like when someone recovers from cancer or something like that.  It makes no sense.  I don’t see how you can claim that natural events are the evidence for any supernatural being,” I said.

          “I get you.  I think there are Christians who ascribe supernatural significance to natural events without good evidence.  But a lot of that has to do with your starting point.  I don’t really want to get into that.  I want you to try to think about your situation from God’s viewpoint,” Lucas said, looking for some approval from me.

          “Sounds a bit strange – what do you mean?” I asked.

          “I mean, let’s say you were God and you wanted to get ‘you’ to believe – how would you do it?  If you, as God, attempt to perform some supernatural event for every person for all time, ‘you’ would just say ‘that’s a natural event.’  But ‘you’ also don’t accept that there is such a thing as a miracle, so God can’t do that either.  So what is left?  You’ve blocked out every avenue for God to show himself to you and then you stand back and say it is God’s fault for now showing himself to you,” Lucas challenged.

          I needed to think that through a bit, so I tried to put him off for now.  “OK, maybe that’s how it is.  But if your God is so great, he ought to be able to figure it out,” I countered.

          Lucas was on a roll, though.  “It’s like you’re saying to God ‘show yourself’ but then you cover your eyes.  Or you say to God ‘speak to me’ and then you cover your ears.  If you were God, why would you even bother?  If someone doesn’t want to know God with that level of intensity, then why would God bother?  Seems to me that it’s your problem, not God’s problem.”
         
          I didn’t want to talk about this further.  “Fine.  It’s my problem.  So leave me alone with my problem and let’s talk about something else.”

          Lucas nodded.  “OK – let’s eat.  All I’m asking is that you think about it from God’s perspective.  I’ll leave it at that.”

          And with that he took a big bite of his sandwich.  Despite his goofy examples, I felt he probably did make a pretty good point.  But I didn’t want to think about it too much – it was time for lunch.


[...on to Session IV...]

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